Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
lore questions/theories/rambling
03-09-2014, 12:33 AM,
#11
aesthetic
RE: lore questions/theories/rambling
(03-09-2014, 12:05 AM)kaolincash Wrote: That's almost exactly how I imagine it to work. It draws on the collective power of the bards themselves, throughout the ages, so theoretically the more bards that perform the songs the stronger the songs become.

However, given that the Necrozoic Plane of Spiritual Disentanglement has always been here, there was no beginning. There have always been bards performing all of the bard songs, and so the songs have reached maximum potential and are thus equally potent for all time.

The songs connect every bard in the infinite past and the infinite future and use their collective consciousness to perform an effect.
It's exactly the same as creating a Tulpic effect, but the bards of the past and the future have already created the effect in perpetuity and it can be called upon at any time.

This also means that at the point a new song is created, it is also created retroactively, and is always at the same power just like the other songs.
Memory implantation!
Ah, wasn't entirely clear on how time worked in the Necrozoic plane. In that case, yes, bardsongs have always been there, but some theorize that part of their power is drawn from Tulpae, as the two have similar functions.
03-09-2014, 12:58 AM,
#12
kaolincash
RE: lore questions/theories/rambling
Well Tulpae don't power things, a Tulpa is created by the power of belief and is powered by collective consciousness. The effects of the bard songs are similar to Tulpae, but they don't continue to exist in their own capacity afterward. Some powerful Tulpae can continue to go and live independently of their creators, but if people stop believing in them then they'll die. A good example of this is fairies. If you say you don't believe in them, they die.

And time doesn't exist, anywhere. Time is an illusion created by the movement of objects and entities within a spacial dimension. This is true to the human realm - it's just a perception of the current moment being in a constant changing state.
Nothing ever stays the same for more than a moment. There is no true "past" or "future", there is only ever the present moment and that's all you will ever experience.
That means that anything that has been experienced by anything happened RIGHT NOW, just in a different configuration of the universe. JFK was shot RIGHT NOW, but things have changed in the wake of his murder. Every bard is singing RIGHT NOW, just things have reconfigured a bit.
That's why the power remains the same - it's always happening RIGHT NOW and it's just being tapped into by whichever bards are singing in the current configuration of the universe in which they activate the song.

Of course, this is all moot. It works BECAUSE it works, it's just that simple.

[Image: forumsig.gif]
03-09-2014, 01:48 AM,
#13
aesthetic
RE: lore questions/theories/rambling
(03-09-2014, 12:58 AM)kaolincash Wrote: Well Tulpae don't power things, a Tulpa is created by the power of belief and is powered by collective consciousness. The effects of the bard songs are similar to Tulpae, but they don't continue to exist in their own capacity afterward. Some powerful Tulpae can continue to go and live independently of their creators, but if people stop believing in them then they'll die. A good example of this is fairies. If you say you don't believe in them, they die.
Ah, I see. Just reread the section on Tulpae.
So they aren't at all sentient, and are sort of just forces that do things that do what you think they'll do?
03-09-2014, 02:12 AM,
#14
kaolincash
RE: lore questions/theories/rambling
Exactly. That is what a poltergeist is; it's sorta like when you're dreaming and something happens because you expect it to. Your TV flies across the room because you think "shit the poltergeist could do that" and it happens so fast you don't realise you caused it to happen.

There was a psychological experiment that had a group of test subjects pressing a button that provided a stimulus on a specific delay - too fast for people to perceive a delay, especially once they got used to it, so the delay became what they perceived as "instantly".
The delay was lessened, and the subjects swore that the stimulus was activated BEFORE they pressed the button, even though they were the ones that caused it by pressing the button.

Spoiler:
section from above link:
Eagleman and his team asked volunteers to press a button to make a light blink—with a slight delay. After 10 or so presses, people cottoned onto the delay and began to see the blink happen as soon as they pressed the button. Then the experimenters reduced the delay, and people reported that the blink happened before they pressed the button.
It's the same illusion, essentially, which is why people don't realise that it's a Tulpa causing the effect.

[Image: forumsig.gif]
03-09-2014, 02:32 AM,
#15
aesthetic
RE: lore questions/theories/rambling
Okay. I saw a poltergeist as being a conscious thing, but it only had the power to do what you thought it could do. I guess that's more Demon territory? Seeing as they're raw spirit essence that you can summon, but they're restricted to what's expected of them.
03-09-2014, 03:39 AM,
#16
kaolincash
RE: lore questions/theories/rambling
Demons have free will, but most Mages don't allow it. If I ever summon the demon that killed me I do it without a circle these days, and I don't issue commands. We hang out for a lil while and I study what I can of Demonology from any experiences she feels like sharing at the time.

Demons are also free to act within the boundaries of their commands, so you have to be specific. If you tell a Demon to "go kill x" then they could kill the target in any way they feel is appropriate. If you tell them "hurl x off y and ensure x's body is utterly destroyed by the impact by way of gravitational force" then they will only be able to kill them in that particular way. It's kinda like the same thing as a Golem, only they have free will. They are obliged to follow the commands of those who summon them if summoned within a binding circle (a summoning circle with runes that bind the Demon to the Mage's will).

A Tulpa has no free will, it's kind of like a Golem but controlled by the subconscious rather than specific commands.

Edit: and like I said, if a Tulpa is powerful enough, it can take on a will of its own, despite the arguable lack of free will available to it. Hell, the entire universe is a Tulpa. You are a Tulpa. I am a Tulpa. We are all thoughtform, controlled by whatever is the fundamental aspect of the universe; be it chaos, a deity, the subconscious, or something else. "Free will" could just be the product of our environment, and thus an illusion too. It's all very meta. Almost paradoxical, but it does make sense if you can get your head around it.

[Image: forumsig.gif]
06-09-2014, 12:16 AM,
#17
Bonald McBonald
RE: lore questions/theories/rambling
Could it be argued that unless you keep a fairly tight reign on a tulpa, it could acquire free will by leeching off your own? Of course, you'd have to believe that it could, but it seems to me like it could act controlled by the subconcious, but independently so, and could even acquire a secondary conciousness in that manner with its own beliefs and willpower. Even as much as to make a tulpa tulpa.
06-09-2014, 01:29 AM,
#18
kaolincash
RE: lore questions/theories/rambling
that doesnt make a lot of sense

you can work within the realms of whatever makes a tulpa a tulpa and if that means a tulpa makes a tulpa then fine but i don't understand what you're asking other than a sensational sorta "what if" scenario that doesn't mean much

[Image: forumsig.gif]


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)